Select committee inquiry
Tackling Defra’s ageing digital services
Closed
What the inquiry looked at
“The Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs (Defra) has one of the largest spending allocations across government for updating its ‘legacy’ services that use old technology or no longer meet business needs. Defra’s problems with legacy services have built up over the years, with most now either no longer supported by the supplier or on extended support arrangements. It has also built new systems on top of old ones – for example to replace EU systems following Brexit – which has added to the challenge. This inquiry is based on the NAO investigation into progress tackling Defra’s ageing digital services . In January the Committee will question senior officials at Defra to further examine: - whether Defra has a full understanding of its legacy challenges, including cyber security risks - if its plans to address the problem are realistic, achievable and aligned to the future needs of the business, and - whether Defra understands the risks to delivering improvements and has a plan for managing these. If you have evidence on these questions, please submit it here by 6pm on Monday 9 January 2023. Please have a look at the requirements for written evidence submissions and note the Committee cannot accept material as evidence that has been published elsewhere.”
The committee's words, from the inquiry page on parliament.uk ↗.
What it found
In the committee's words, from the summary of Fifty-First Report - Tackling Defra’s ageing digital services ↗
Defra has one of the most significant legacy IT challenges across government, with a proliferation of outdated applications across the Department and the many other organisations that make up the Defra Group. While Defra is making good progress in tackling its most urgent legacy systems it does not have a long-term strategy for its much-needed wider digital transformation. Defra systems are used by a wide range of customers and are critical to the country’s trade, disease prevention, flood protection, and air quality monitoring. To these groups of customers its legacy IT systems feel outdated and difficult to use, often being reliant on paper forms or documents. Defra and its organisations handle around 14 million transactions per year that still involve paper forms, making them inefficient and expensive. Defra does not measure the cost to users of its unmodernised digital services, so it is not possible to assess the total burden they place on other organisations and the wider economy. Defra estimates that it needs to spend £726 million on modernising legacy services between 2021 and 2025, but that fully transforming its digital systems could save £20 million to £25 million every year.
At the same time as addressing the challenges posed by legacy IT, Defra is undertaking a business transformation process which includes potentially major structural changes to Defra and its arm’s-length bodies. Defra does not currently have a vision of how the transformed Department and its organisations will operate. This means that any changes made now to its digital systems may not be appropriate once longer-term decisions about the structure of the Department and its organisations have been made.
This may lead to unnecessary time and money spent implementing these changes. Defra is struggling to recruit the digital, data and technology staff it needs, and so it remains over-reliant on contractors which can cost up to twice as much.
The Central Digital and Data Office (CDDO) at the Cabinet Office is working with departments to ensure that at least 50 of the 75 highest priority customer services across government reach a “great” standard by 2025. CDDO has reviewed nine of these services but only one of these meets this standard. CDDO’s attempts to establish strong cross-government collaboration and agree challenging commitments to replace legacy systems with departments are positive steps towards improving digital services more widely. Despite its confidence that it can meet its commitments by the 2025 deadline Defra’s current plans do not show how it will do so.
What the government said
The government responded on 21 July 2023. The deadline was 10 July 2023.
Summary written by Accountability Index from the government's response.
The government states that it agrees with each of the Committee's recommendations on Defra's legacy IT and sets out target dates and actions for them.
- Defra will share the key lessons and success factors behind its legacy IT progress with CDDO and other departments, and will provide evidence to demonstrate closure of this recommendation by November 2023.
- Defra "intends to publish" its digital and data strategy and high-level plan by the end of March 2024, and will write to the Committee by then with further detail on planned actions, monitoring measures and Group-wide standards.
- Defra is working towards a target of 25% of headcount being contingent labour by the end of 2023-24 and 12% by the end of 2024-25.
- Defra will analyse its own service landscape to determine priority areas for investment ahead of SR24 bidding, including efficiency savings "as far as possible", and will write to the Committee within a year of the analysis finishing.
Read the government's response ↗ Read the report ↗ Report an error
How the inquiry ran
Each dot is a dated item listed on this page, from the inquiry's opening on 28 November 2022 to its close on 21 July 2023. The dashed mark is the deadline Parliament records for the government's response.
- Oral evidence 19 Jan 2023
- Report 10 May 2023
- Government response 21 Jul 2023
- Correspondence 7 Feb 2023
What it recommended 8 recommendations · 17 conclusions
2Develop a comprehensive long-term digital and data strategy, establishing group-wide technology standards for Defra.
Concluded (the committee's words)
Defra does not have a strategy or vision needed for its long-term digital transformation. Defra has so far focused on stabilising its legacy applications by seeking to mitigate the biggest risks of cyber-attack or operational failure and is moving towards enhancing and transforming these applications. But it does not yet have a strategy for the transformation of its digital services and is not taking a proactive approach to challenges, such as reducing reliance on paper forms and making applications available on mobile phones. It has instead tended to be reactive and focus its efforts on areas that need to be addressed more urgently, such as implementing the IT systems needed for EU Exit. We would expect Defra to look at the digital needs across all of the organisations within the Defra Group and consider where it can make savings and improvements. Many different technologies and standards are used across Defra owing to how it has grown and developed over time, and the different approaches to technology adopted by different organisations within Defra. Defra does not yet have agreed standards for IT systems across the Department and its organisation that would ensure they are developed in a more consistent way across the Group. Recommendation 2: Defra should: a) develop its longer-term digital and data strategy, and ensure that this reflects the digital needs of organisations across the Defra Group; b) write to the Committee by the end of March 2024, outlining details of the actions planned in its strategy, including the measures it will use to monitor performance and how it will establish and implement Group-wide standards for technology and architecture.
3Identify and address the problems and costs faced by users of Defra's unmodernised services.
Recommended (the committee's words)
Defra has not given enough attention to the impact of its poor digital services on its users. To users, legacy IT systems feel outdated or lack functionality and they are 6 Tackling Defra’s ageing digital services at higher risk of temporary crashes. Defra has recently upgraded its system that vets and farmers use to record bovine tuberculosis test results. Previously vets had to buy old laptops to be able to run the programme. Many legacy systems still rely heavily on paper forms or documents. Defra and its organisations handle around 14 million paper transactions each year. Defra intends to reduce its reliance on paper forms but is unable to say when this will happen. Despite the advantages of digital forms, there are barriers to increasing the use of digital-based applications and processes which Defra does not yet fully understand. For example, some customers prefer paper-based licenses, and Defra is working to understand and address the barriers to more of its customers using digital solutions. Defra does not measure the costs to its customers of its unmodernised digital services but is now attempting to include these in business cases for specific changes. Recommendation 3: In its Treasury Minute response, Defra should set out how it will identify the problems and costs faced by its service users as a result of unmodernised services, and how it is going to address each of them.
4Ensure digital investment and systems align with Defra Group's future structure to avoid rebuilding.
Recommended (the committee's words)
Defra is at risk of wasting money on digital services because it has not yet taken decisions on business transformation. In parallel with its work on legacy, Defra is embarking on a fundamental review of the structure of its organisation, including potentially major structural changes to the bodies and organisations that form the Defra Group. Some decisions about digital services need to be taken without delay. But without clarity on what the transformed Defra will look like, it is difficult for its digital specialists to prepare. If Defra makes decisions and undertakes work as part of improving its digital services before it has decided the future shape and structure of its business operations or before it has determined what its digital requirements are, it risks limiting the usefulness of the systems and causing future problems. It has assured us that it would not invest in building new digital systems that would have to be rebuilt to fit its new business model. Recommendation 4: As part of the Treasury Minute response, Defra should set out how it will ensure that investment and new digital systems put in place before it has made key decisions about the future shape, structure and digital needs of the Defra Group, will not need not to be rebuilt.
5Adopt new approaches to recruit digital staff, reducing over-reliance on contractors and setting targets.
Concluded (the committee's words)
Defra is over-reliant on contractors because it struggles to recruit and retain the people with the digital skills it needs. Defra says it has reduced its reliance on contractors and temporary staff over the last year from 30% to 22%, but this is still too high. CDDO tells us that using some contingent labour is good for flexibility but that it can be up to twice as expensive for some roles. In June 2022, CDDO committed to reducing vacancies in the digital community across government departments to less than 10% by 2025. Between October 2021 and October 2022, Defra ran recruitment campaigns for 244 digital, data and technology roles but could not fill 31% of these roles. In October 2022, 14% of roles in the digital and data community were vacant across government. The digital, data and technology pay framework has helped to attract digital staff, and Defra expects forthcoming changes to the framework to help further. Defra has found that being able to offer home- and hybrid-working can make it easier to recruit staff. In addition, people often join Defra because they are committed to improving the environment and we encourage Defra to continue to capitalise on this. Tackling Defra’s ageing digital services 7 Recommendation 5: As part of the Treasury Minute response, Defra should: a) explain what new approaches it will adopt to recruit staff and reduce its reliance on contractors and temporary staff to provide digital skills; b) specify what target it is working towards for the appropriate level of contractors and temporary staff and when it expects to achieve it.
6Strengthen Defra's investment case by analysing efficiency savings from modernising its digital systems.
Concluded (the committee's words)
Defra does not yet know how it will meet Government’s ambitions for digital change within its existing resources. CDDO has agreed a set of challenging commitments with departments, and Defra is confident it can meet these. However, Defra received only 58% of the funding it bid for in the 2021 Spending Review and cannot deliver all its aspirations with the funding it has available. For example, it aims to digitise all of its 20 most used services but none of this work is yet funded. Defra has taken an ordered approach to prioritising its work, focussing on its riskiest digital systems first, such as those most likely to fail or at most risk of cyber- attack. It says it has saved money by decommissioning services as part of its review of legacy applications, and believes there is scope for it to save £20-£25 million if it modernised all its IT. However, Defra is unlikely to know the full extent of the cost savings and efficiency gains that are possible because it does not know all the additional costs of operating its legacy services, for example because of the need for manual processes. Recommendation 6: Defra should: a) strengthen its case for investment by developing its analysis of the efficiency savings that could be achieved through modernising its systems and processes; b) write to the Committee within a year with the results of this analysis and what action it plans to take as a result.
7Report on departmental traction for CDDO's missions and provide annual progress updates thereafter.
Recommended (the committee's words)
We welcome CDDO’s efforts to establish strong cross-government co-operation and collaboration to identifying and addressing legacy IT issues. Since our December 2021 report on the Challenges in implementing digital change, CDDO has worked with all departments to establish a common methodology across departments for prioritising legacy risk. It has developed a framework to identify vulnerable legacy systems and tested it with six departments including Defra. Covering 105 digital systems across the six departments, this has highlighted those which need immediate work. CDDO intends to use the framework with the remaining departments by the end of 2023. CDDO has worked closely with departments in the development of its Roadmap to identify problem areas that need to be tackled and has introduced a set of commitments that all departments have signed up to and agreed to fund from within their own budget. CDDO is also working with departments to determine how significant the financial benefits from addressing legacy can be, and it expects this will support departments’ bids for funding to HM Treasury. 8 Tackling Defra’s ageing digital services Recommendation 7: As part of the Treasury Minute response, CDDO should set out whether it is getting the traction needed from departments to achieve its missions, and report annually thereafter on its progress and any difficulties in working with departments. Tackling Defra’s ageing digital services 9 1 Defra’s progress in addressing legacy IT issues
1Committee heard evidence on modernising Defra's ageing digital services from Defra and CDDO.
Concluded (the committee's words)
On the basis of a report by the Comptroller and Auditor General, we took evidence from the Department for Food, Environment & Rural Affairs (Defra) and the Central Digital & Data Office (CDDO) at the Cabinet Office about modernising ageing digital services.1
8Defra recognises user burden from legacy systems but struggles to quantify customer costs.
Recommended (the committee's words)
Defra recognised that one of the main issues of legacy systems was that they created a burden on the service user. But the NAO found that Defra does not measure the cost to its customers of its unmodernised digital services.12 We asked the Department what work it had done to understand the potential cost savings to the user of modernising its digital systems, for example the cost of time spent filling out paper forms. Defra explained that it would look to build this in as part of developing business cases for changing its systems. It noted that it had so far found them hard to quantify, but that CDDO had provided a framework which should help it asses these costs.13 Progress in addressing legacy systems
9Defra shows progress tackling urgent legacy systems, prioritising high-risk applications for stabilisation.
Recommended (the committee's words)
Defra had made progress in tackling its most urgent legacy systems. The NAO found that it had addressed the most pressing issues, prioritising work on applications that need to be stabilised in the short-term. Defra had taken a formal approach to prioritising its work and focussed on riskiest systems first. It established a digital prioritisation board, 7 C&AG’s Report, paras 17, 2.15 8 Qq 28, 72 9 Qq 28–29 10 Q 35 11 Qq 77, 83 12 Q 31; C&AG’s Report, para 1.8 13 Qq 74–75 Tackling Defra’s ageing digital services 11 made of up Defra’s senior leaders and representatives from its main arm’s-length bodies. This board identified 109 projects that it will fund with the £366 million it received in the 2021 Spending Review to address all areas of digital legacy.14
10Defra's legacy system resolution extends to 2030, with many applications requiring "hyper-care".
Concluded (the committee's words)
The NAO also found that Defra did not expect to resolve all its legacy issues until 2030.15 For example, Defra told us that it had worked with the Central Digital & Data Office (CDDO) to establish which services were most critical or had the largest number of users. It explained that, of the top 75 public-facing applications identified using this classification, 12 were within Defra.16 In January 2023, Defra told us that, of Defra’s 12 systems with the highest volume of public or business users, two were a mixture of modern and legacy systems and one was an entirely legacy system.17 However, across Defra’s applications as a whole, only 20% were fully supported by the original supplier. 50% of the applications had at least one part that was in extended support and the remaining 30% were unsupported by the original supplier, reduced from 50% in September 2019.18 Defra recognised that the legacy applications which were unsupported by the original supplier were more at risk of security breaches or operational failure.19 Defra told us that it had put in place “hyper-care” to support these applications, including additional routine monitoring of these services so that it was “more acutely aware if there is an issue”.20 It explained that it supported these applications either through its internal digital team or by paying suppliers to help if something went wrong. Defra told us that, while it was less confident that these services were providing the best service for the customer, it was confident that it had identified the applications that were most at risk and had put the right care in place to prevent the risk of cyber-attack or the systems failing.21
11Legacy systems predominantly exist in Defra's older legislative and long-running delivery areas.
Recommended (the committee's words)
We asked Defra whether the applications in extended support or hyper-care sat within particular parts of the Defra Group. Defra told us that legacy systems were typically located in areas where the legislation was older, which tended to be in the more long- running delivery areas for Defra Group. Defra explained that it had invested in replacing IT systems to align with newer legislation created for exiting the EU and had created new IT systems, such as for borders and trade, and the future farming and countryside programme.22 It told us it used some of the applications it had created more recently as building blocks to form standard platforms for new digital developments, increasing the speed at which it could react to changes.23 The availability of digital skills
12A significant gap persists between demand and supply for government digital specialists.
Recommended (the committee's words)
When we examined the challenges in implementing digital change in December 2021, we concluded that there was a large gap between the demand for, and supply of, the digital specialists that government needed, and that it was hard to get the right balance of in-house and outsourced skills.24 In response, in February 2022, CDDO committed to creating 14 C&AG’s Report, paras 9, 18, 22 15 C&AG’s Report, paras 9, 22 16 Q 24 17 Q 25 18 Qq 13–14 and C&AG Report, figure 3 19 Qq 19–20 20 Qq 13–14 21 Qq 14, 20 22 Q 15 23 Qq 29, 78 24 Committee of Public Accounts, Thirtieth Report of Session 2021–22, Challenges in implementing digital change, HC 637, 10 December 2021 12 Tackling Defra’s ageing digital services a consistent, streamlined process for Digital, Data and Technology (DDaT) recruitment which would enable a consistent, streamlined process through which government would identify, assess, onboard and deploy DDaT talent. It explained that this would align departments with the DDaT capability framework and associated remuneration offer to further support recruitment and retention.25
13Defra faces persistent difficulty recruiting digital skills, with 31% of roles remaining unfilled.
Concluded (the committee's words)
There is still a digital skills shortage across UK industry and the public sector and, in December 2022, the NAO found that Defra had found it difficult to recruit and retain people with the right digital skills. Between October 2021 and October 2022, Defra ran recruitment campaigns for 244 digital, data and technology roles but could not fill 31% of these roles.26 CDDO told us that this problem was not unique to Defra: in October 2022, 14% of roles in the digital and data community were vacant across government. In June 2022, CDDO committed to reducing vacancies in the digital community across government departments to less than 10% by 2025.27 We asked the Department what it was doing to fill the digital roles that it had so far been unable to fill. Defra told us it used contractors to fill the gap in its workforce.28 CDDO clarified that using some contingent labour was good for flexibility, but that it can be up to twice as expensive for some roles. Defra explained that it had reduced its reliance on contractors and temporary staff over the last year from 30% to 22%.29
14Defra utilises pay frameworks, hybrid working, and apprenticeships to attract digital staff.
Concluded (the committee's words)
Defra told us that the digital, data and technology pay framework, which allowed supplements to be paid based on capability for specific digital roles, helped it to attract digital staff. It expected forthcoming changes to the framework, such as changes to career progression and the breadth of roles covered, to help further recruit the staff it needs. We asked what Defra had done to make the roles as attractive as possible, for example through hybrid working. Defra told us that it had used this for both recruiting those with digital skills, but also in its recruitment more generally. It also explained that it had brought in more junior staff through setting up its own academy and used apprenticeships to provide a pipeline of experienced staff. Defra told us that people often joined the department because they were committed to improving the environment and explained how it actively promoted not just a job vacancy but also the outcome they will deliver, such as protecting and enhancing the environment.30 25 HM Treasury, Treasury Minutes: Government response to the Committee of Public Accounts on the Twenty- Seventh to the Thirty-First reports from Session 2021–22, CP 631, February 2022 26 C&AG’s Report, paras 5, 15, 1.23 27 Q 65; Central Digital and Data Office, Transforming for a digital future: 2022 to 2025 roadmap for digital and data, 9 June 2022 28 Qq 58–59 29 Qq 59, 65 30 Qq 59–61 Tackling Defra’s ageing digital services 13 2 Defra’s long-term strategy Defra’s long-term strategy and vision for digital transformation
15Defra lacks a clear strategy for transforming digital services despite a 10-year transformation goal.
Concluded (the committee's words)
Defra told us that it had so far focused on stabilising its legacy applications to reduce the risks of cyber-attack or operational failure and on developing and implementing the IT systems needed for EU Exit, rather than work to reduce reliance on paper forms or to make applications widely available on mobile phones.31 It explained that stabilising applications often involved moving them from older data centres onto modern cloud- based platforms. Once the risks have been diminished, Defra told us it intends to move on to enhancing and transforming its legacy applications. This will involve rebuilding and replacing applications and decommissioning existing legacy IT. Defra expected the full transformation of its business applications to take around 10 years.32 However, Defra told us that it does not a yet have a strategy for transforming its digital services or a plan for enhancing and transforming its legacy applications. It explained that it intended to complete work on developing a vision for digital transformation within a year but was unable to give an indication of what it would achieve in terms of digitising its systems.33
16Defra lacks agreed group-wide IT system standards, hindering consistent technology development.
Concluded (the committee's words)
Many different technologies are used across Defra as a consequence of how the Defra Group has grown and changed over time, and how systems were originally developed by different organisations within the Group, which each had their own approach to technology. Defra does not yet have agreed standards for IT systems across the Department and its organisation that would ensure they are developed in a more consistent way across the Group. It told the NAO that, where work to address legacy IT systems had so far resulted in greater user of common technologies, this had been coincidental rather than in accordance with an overarching design. The NAO found that different areas of Defra were still making different choices about their IT systems based on what they already had and were not always taking into account wider corporate considerations, which would inhibit Defra’s ability to gain the full benefits of standardisation.34 We asked the Department when it expected to have established an overall Group-wide standard for technology and architecture. Defra recognised that, while it had established many standards, there were some gaps, and told us that it had work in place to fill these which it anticipated would be complete within the year.35 Aligning digital and business transformation
17Defra pursues business transformation, aiming to reduce duplication across Group IT systems.
Concluded (the committee's words)
In parallel with its work on address legacy IT systems, Defra told us it was embarking on a fundamental business transformation process, including potentially major structural changes to the Defra Group. Defra explained that this will include considering how it could reduce duplication across the Group.36 For example, it explained that across Defra Group, many bodies issued licenses and permits and there were 37 different IT applications that supported this. It explained that it thought that there was scope to consolidate its technology, processes and teams to create efficiency savings.37 31 Qq 20, 28–30, 51 32 Qq 17, 29; C&AG’s Report, para 2.5 33 Qq 28–29, 82 34 C&AG’s Report, paras 2.20–2.21 35 Q 78 36 Q 47 37 Q 80 14 Tackling Defra’s ageing digital services
18Defra lacks a clear vision for its transformed business, impeding digital transformation planning.
Concluded (the committee's words)
However, Defra has not yet developed a clear vision for how its business will operate after transformation. Business transformation and digital transformation are closely linked but without clarity on what the transformed Defra will look like, it is difficult for its digital specialists to prepare. Decisions taken now may need to be reversed when the new Group structure is implemented and this could mean systems have to be rebuilt.38 Given this, we asked Defra how it could design a digital programme. Defra told us that it was working through what it might do in terms of further joining up the Defra Group and any structural changes that this might involve. It told us that it thought that the way that it currently operated its IT, on a Group basis, should mean that any changes would not affect, or be an issue, for its digital programme.39
19Defra's digital transformation vision and blueprint require further alignment and flexibility.
Concluded (the committee's words)
We also asked Defra how it would ensure that its approach did not result in the waste of taxpayers’ money. Defra explained that the majority of its transformation programme was focused on business process, how people used business processes, and the way that is governed. It assured us that it will not invest in building new digital systems that will have to be rebuilt to fit its new business model. Defra explained that its approach was to invest in common components that can provide the agility needed to support future development and whatever direction Defra decided to go in.40 It recognised, however, the NAO’s findings that there was further work to do to align the different perspective of policy, future business needs, and digital, data and technology to ensure a clear and consistent vision and blueprint for Defra’s transformation. It noted that it needed to undertake its digital work in a way that allowed it to be as flexible as possible in terms of how it worked across the Defra Group in future. It told us that this agility and flexibility would underpin its vision, but was not complete yet, and expected to have completed this within the year.41 38 Q 80; C&AG’s Report, paras 6, 2.25 39 Q 47 40 Qq 80–81 41 Q 82 Tackling Defra’s ageing digital services 15 3 Collaboration and standardisation across government
20Majority of government digital services fail to meet 'great' standard by 2025.
Concluded (the committee's words)
In June 2022, CDDO published a Roadmap which set out a common cross-government vision for digital and data by 2025. It contained a set of challenging commitments across six strategic areas known as missions, which CDDO told us all departments signed up to and had agreed to meet out of their own budgets. For example, in the Roadmap, CDDO stated that it was working with departments to ensure that at least 50 of the top 75 highest priority customer services across government reach a “great” standard by 2025.42 CDDO told us that, of the services it had looked at so far, only 10% qualified as great. CDDO explained that, while this was not “a super starting point”, it did mean that there were substantive opportunities to improve existing services, which in its experience would lead to “very significant upsides in terms of efficiency and payback”.43 It anticipated that this work would allow departments to set out a strong case for digitalisation, which would contribute to their discussions about funding with HM Treasury.44
21Defra's digital investment funding is inadequate for comprehensive legacy service transformation.
Concluded (the committee's words)
In the 2021 Spending Review, Defra received £871 million for digital investment for 2021–2025, of which £366 million was to address legacy issues and bring its systems up to date. The remainder was for investment in the Future Farming and Countryside and borders and trade programmes which were needed to support EU Exit as well as flood- related IT.45 Defra received 58% of the funding it bid for in the 2021 Spending Review. According to Defra, this was sufficient funding to resolve some major operational and cyber risks and automation, but not enough to fund a broader digital transformation of all legacy services. For example, it aims to digitise all of its 20 most used services but none of this work is yet funded. Defra had to prioritise its activities to determine what it could deliver with this money.46
22Defra aims to improve 12 key digital services to 'great' standard within existing budgets.
Concluded (the committee's words)
We asked how departments would deliver the ambitions and standards set for digitisation using their existing budgets. Defra was confident it could fulfil the commitments made in the CDDO’s Roadmap and that it would get the 12 services in the government’s top 75 to a “great” standard by 2025 by improving both their usability and their efficiency.47 It explained that it was finding ways to achieve as much as possible with the funding that it had, for example opportunities to introduce something new but to improve an existing service at the same time. It also told us that it had identified areas where it will prioritise digitising or transforming a service if it is able to release funding from its existing budget, for example by delivering another programme “better and quicker”.48
23Defra lacks comprehensive data on the full operational costs of using legacy IT systems.
Concluded (the committee's words)
As part of its review of legacy applications, Defra told us it had decommissioned over 30 IT systems because more modern alternatives were available. It explained that this had improved its internal efficiency and created cost savings. Defra estimated that it needs to spend £726 million on modernising legacy services between 2021 and 2025. Defra told us that it considered that there was scope for saving £20–25 million per year if 42 Qq 50–51; Central Digital and Data Office, Transforming for a digital future: 2022 to 2025 roadmap for digital and data, 9 June 2022 43 Q 49 44 Qq 49, 76 45 Q 48, C&AG’s Report, para 1.19 46 Q 48; C&AG’s Report, paras 2.8, 2.15 47 Qq 48, 51, 56–57 48 Q 51 16 Tackling Defra’s ageing digital services it modernised all its IT.49 However, Defra did not record the additional costs of continuing to use legacy services such as manual processes, where outdated technology added to the cost of operating services. For example, it could not tell us how many additional people it employed because of the legacy systems it used.50 Collaboration across government – the role of the Central Data & Digital Office (CDDO)
24Cross-departmental collaboration demonstrates significant potential for digital synergies and citizen benefits.
Concluded (the committee's words)
We asked CDDO its assessment of government’s approach to digitisation. CDDO told us it had been delighted with the collaboration it had received from government departments as part of putting together the digital change road map. It explained that, while there was still more to do, it was “considerably more optimistic now as we go forward”.51 CDDO pointed to what it saw as a huge opportunity for not just better use of public money, but a far better experience for citizens. We therefore asked CDDO whether departments’ approaches to working together were sufficient to allow them to take advantage of synergies between their work, including economies of scale and efficiencies. CDDO told us that cross-departmental working came in many forms, such as the chief technology officer forum where 30 senior staff discussed opportunities for sharing and consolidating systems. For example, it explained that a pilot project was considering grants, because many departments provided grants but used multiple systems for this and it thought there might be an opportunity to share and consolidate these.52 We asked how this work had helped departments bidding for funding for digitisation. CDDO explained that it had provided technical input into each of the major funding bids for legacy and other digital investment projects in the 2021 Spending Review.53
25Mandate CDDO to map government legacy systems and produce an annual prioritised action pipeline.
Recommended (the committee's words)
In December 2021, we examined challenges in implementing digital change. We concluded that there was no clear plan to replace or modernise legacy systems and data that were critical to service provision but were often old, unsupportable, vulnerable and a constraint on transformation. We recommended that CDDO should work with departments to map legacy systems across government to document what is there, why it exists and how critical it is. We recommended that, by the end of 2022, the CDDO should use this to produce a pipeline of prioritised legacy systems with milestones for action.54 The government agreed with our recommendation, and in response told us that CDDO was working with departments to establish a common methodology for identifying and prioritising legacy risk, which it aimed to implement across departments by the end of 2022.55 CDDO told us that, it was making progress with departments to identify and understand the risks and to help departments mitigate them.56 It explained that it had developed a framework and tested it with six departments including Defra, which covered 105 systems, and highlighted those which needed immediate work. It intended to use the framework with the remaining departments by the end of 2023, and to refresh it annually. 49 Qq 46, 63 50 Q 30; C&AG’s Report, para 12 51 Q 72 52 Qq 68, 72 53 Q 43 54 Committee of Public Accounts, Thirtieth Report of Session 2021–22, Challenges in implementing digital change, HC 637, 10 December 2021 55 HM Treasury, Treasury Minutes: Government response to the Committee of Public Accounts on the Twenty- Seventh to the Thirty-First reports from Session 2021–22, CP 631, February 2022 56 Q 41; HM Treasury, Treasury Minutes: Government response to the Committee of Public Accounts on the Twenty- Seventh to the Thirty-First reports from Session 2021–22, CP 631, February 2022 Tackling Defra’s ageing digital services 17 It told us that it expected that this work would give it a good sense of where the risks we
Evidence
Oral evidence sessions 1
- 19 Jan 2023Tackling Defra’s ageing digital services4 witnesses, listed belowparliament.uk ↗
Who gave evidence 4 witnesses
- Chris HowesChief Digital and Information Officer, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
- Malcolm McKeeChief Technology Officer, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
- Paul WillmottChair of the Central Digital and Data Office, Cabinet Office
- Tamara Finkelstein CBPermanent Secretary, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs